I originally wrote this post on July 3rd, 2004, on my original blog. The area between the horizontal breaks was added today.

This week has been wild. First, Bethany’s car died. I spent until 9 pm fixing it, after I had worked a long day. The next day, Bethany’s power dims, and none of her plugs work. I have a computer I’m about to work on, and I have to tell this nice older man at church that I can’t fix it just yet… That same night, my truck dies… horribly. Blew a head gasket. Bethany’s had a psychotic week at work, she’s sick, I’m exhausted… So, I figure this is appropriate.

I used to HATE it when this didn’t go my way. It’d get me down, depressed, and oh, so pissed off.

Praise the Lord, I’m no longer bound to the emotional savagery that washes over you when it seems everything in life is conspiring to drown you, and crush you.

See, I live by a different paradigm, now. My goal is NOT to advance myself, and to make sure I’m #1 on everyone’s list. It’s to advance the cause of Christ! So, like my friends from Skillet,

 Quote:

I’m a beep, I’m a vapor
I’m just a blinking light
I’m a beep, I’m a vapor
And I’m about to evaporate

And the future’s robbing my soul
I’m face to face with my futility
And my life is slipping away
Inhaling my mortality

And I feel my skin’s just a shell
Underneath is my reality
I breathe dimensions unknown
It conquers my mortality

It’s a mad world will it ever stop?
Will the madness end?
While my body decays my soul does not
Death is just the beginning

And the future is robbing my soul
Inhaling my mortality

‘Vanity of vanities – all is vanity”, says the preacher – and I’m inclined to agree with him. Everything I’ve ever set my heart on, save God, has been systematically dismantled, bit by bit. I know why, too – I still claim ownership over my own life, in many respects, and count my worthiness in other’s esteem, much too often.

God’s solution, as usual, is to pare my life down to it’s essence – He asks me, like Peter:

 Quote:

15 So when they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me more than these?” He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.” He said to him, “Tend My lambs.” 16 He said to him again a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” He said to Him, “Yes, Lord; You know that I love You.” He said to him, “Shepherd My sheep.” 17 He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love Me?” Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, “Do you love Me?” And he said to Him, “Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You.” Jesus said to him, “Tend My sheep.

– John 21:15-19

That’s all that matters, folks.

Not job, not significant other, not children, not hobbies, not skill, not esteem – just read this.

 Quote:

23 And Jesus, looking around, said to His disciples, “How hard it will be for those who are wealthy to enter the kingdom of God!” 24 The disciples were amazed at His words. But Jesus answered again and said to them, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! 25 “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” 26 They were even more astonished and said to Him, “Then who can be saved?” 27 Looking at them, Jesus said, “With people it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God.” 28 Peter began to say to Him, “Behold, we have left everything and followed You.” 29 Jesus said, “Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or farms, for My sake and for the gospel’s sake, 30 but that he will receive a hundred times as much now in the present age, houses and brothers and sisters and mothers and children and farms, along with persecutions; and in the age to come, eternal life. 31 “But many who are first will be last, and the last, first.”

Yeah, I’m some religious nut. You betcha, kids. I stand on the promises of God. I don’t need man’s affirmation, I need God’s. “Whom God loves, He chastens”, though, is also something that comes to mind for a Believer. God destroys you, in order to build you up. Doesn’t sound
like fun?

Oh, it isn’t. You Jesus was kidding, above, when He says “Children, how hard it is to enter the Kingdom of God”? Heck no. I wouldn’t trade it for anything in the world, though.

Cause despite the “refining” I’m going through right now – like Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego – I’m FIREPROOF

Job 13:15 – “Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him.”

I get periodical updates from Apologetics Press about articles they’ve added.

The three for this update are as follows:

Theism or Atheism: Whose Fruit is Sweeter

Deism, Atheism, and the Founders

Myth and the Claims of Bible Writers

If you’d like to get these yourself: Go to the very bottom left of their website.

Enjoy!

This quote was in response to this post. My response is below.

Holy Jebus,

If that’s what’s god paradise is all about, then he just lost one of his flock for ever.

I ain’t going to paradise to see others denied because they are gay, sorry G”D.

——————————————————————————————————–

Okay,

So you believe, just as I do, but you do in a different context.

If you are truly as you claim to be:

“God and Christians love you, and we’re reaching out to you right now.”

then you would accept what Tesla coil is, even if he did and still does something that “is wrong” you would forgive him till the end and accept him into paradise(love your worst enemy or God loves the sinner and forgives them).

But that’s not my G”D, the God I believe in is someone carrying for compassion and that people treat each other in a fair and grown up way, that’s my believe.

Holy Jebus,

If that’s what’s god paradise is all about, then he just lost one of his flock for ever.

I ain’t going to paradise to see others denied because they are gay, sorry G”D.

All I’m going to reply to this is a simple quote, from Jesus himself.

Not everyone who says to Me, `Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

You can’t do “buffet-style” Christianity. Pick what you want, ignore the rest. This thread has been filled with examples of where the Bible clearly says that Homosexuality is wrong. Ignore them at your own peril.

Okay,

So you believe, just as I do, but you do in a different context.

No. You’re playing “buffet-style” in this case – he’s not. There is a world of difference, and I hope you recognize that. Since you claim to be a Christian, I’m going to point thisout, and be very blunt with you – what you are saying is antithetical to what the Bible teaches.

But He said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.”

If you are truly as you claim to be:

“God and Christians love you, and we’re reaching out to you right now.”

then you would accept what Tesla coil is, even if he did and still does something that “is wrong” you would forgive him till the end and accept him into paradise(love your worst enemy or God loves the sinner and forgives them).

You’re mixing apples and oranges. He, as a person, is not wholly defined by a single type of action. it may very well affect much of what he does, but he, himself, is not “homosexual”. I, for example, am not “Electronics Technician” – I DO the work, but that does NOT make me WHO I am. It’s just what I DO. Don’t label, don’t turn people into labels. Tesla, I’m sure, is a nice guy, plays mechwarrior well, is a good friend, and is also wellspoken. Those are only parts of who he his. He is not “homosexual”. Homosexuality is an action, and a lifestyle, not the person himself. Ever.

I’m sure we’d get along just fine face to face, as I got along just fine with my ex mother in law. It has been awkward at times, but that’s life. I don’t identify action with person. Have you ever lied? Do I then call you “liar”, not by your name? Identify you with lying for the rest of the time I know you? No, I understand that this happens to be a failing you had – and very may continue to have – but I’m not going to judge you for it, and have a conniption about the fact that you lied. Homosexuality is a sin. In the Bible. I live by that book, and follow it as best as my human frailties allow me. Nowhere in that book does it say that I am bound to condemn, to persecute, or to turn my back on someone because he is homosexual. I AM, however, bound to point out sin where it stands, and attempt to get people to turn from it.

But that’s not my G”D, the God I believe in is someone carrying for compassion and that people treat each other in a fair and grown up way, that’s my believe.

That’s also looking completely past every other aspect of God – such as His Holiness, His Justice, and His Wrath. There is Grace, Mercy, and Love, sure – but there is also the need fo the former, just as much as the latter. God is not all daisies and rosebuds, and children skipping along in a line chattering nursery rhymes. There is also God’s awesome, sovereign, and holy requirement that dictates His Judgement of sin. Do not make the mistake of seeing only the Mercy, when Justice is required for Him to be merciful at all. With no Justice, how can there be mercy, if there is nothing to be merciful of? THAT is the pitfall the majority of “name it and claim it” televangelists fall into. God is not all Mercy. He is also Justice – but most of all, He is absolutely, entirely, Holy – and holiness cannot allow sin in it’s presence. Jesus died to cleanse us of sin – but, remember what John said?

REPENT, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!

Ok, here I fix the error of my last post. Still, though, I think I was a bit overdramatic. I think it was all right, though. Any suggestions on how I can improve the next exchange?

The quote that occasioned the response that follows:

I still don’t like the implication that homosexuals are sinners purely for being homosexuals.

Just for clarification: I am not a homosexual. But I fully believe that homosexuals have a right to be who they are, without someone citing a book that they happen to believe in as proof that they are some kind of blasphemy.

Oh, and would it help if I also said I’m a Christian too? If we’re citing the bible here, whatever happened to “Love thy neighbour”?

I still don’t like the implication that homosexuals are sinners purely for being homosexuals.

It’s not implication. It’s stated as fact, over, and over, and over in the Bible. The same way that someone who tells a lie, is a sinner. One lie. Commits adultery once.

It is NOT some “greater” sort of sin – it’s just like every OTHER sin – equally abominable in the sight of God. Every single little sin, regardless of what we classify as “good”, as “bad”, or “greater”, or “lesser” is equally sin. No differentiation.

Just for clarification: I am not a homosexual. But I fully believe that homosexuals have a right to be who they are, without someone citing a book that they happen to believe in as proof that they are some kind of blasphemy.

Sure, everyone has a right to lie, a right to steal, a right to fornicate – it’s called “free will”. Having a “right” (read: ability to do so) does not mean it’s right. I don’t “look down on” someone who commits a homosexual act any more than I do on someone who lies to me, or lies to someone else. They did something wrong, like everyone else in this world has, at one time or another. Am I supposed to say that fornication is bad, yet fornication between members of the same gender is good? When the very act itself is called a sin? It doesn’t compute. Any sin, regardless of what it happens to be, is wrong. Period. I cannot make any distinction, and I cannot make any exceptions. God doesn’t.

Oh, and would it help if I also said I’m a Christian too? If we’re citing the bible here, whatever happened to “Love thy neighbour”?

“You will know them by their fruit” – no. If you are, you’re seriously wrong – and I invite you to read your Bible more closely.

I missed the crucial problem with this argument. The “being homosexuals” part. You “are” not a homosexual. You *act* like a homosexual. You are not defined by a single sin. This does not define who you are. I catch this error later on in the thread, but I’m still annoyed it took me so long to figure it out.

The post which occasioned my response below.

Every time I read this topic, I’m beginning to feel less and less welcome here. This topic shows just how tolerant you are as you pass judgment on others, who do not feel the way you do. You people must feel really good about yourselves now.

I’m just trying to live out my life the best I can.

But hey, what do you care! I’m just a freak who goes against God and nature.

Every time I read this topic, I’m beginning to feel less and less welcome here.

Hrmm? Why so?

This topic shows just how tolerant you are as you pass judgment on others, who do not feel the way you do.

Who passed judgment on what? I certainly didn’t. The only person I will judge is one who is in the church. If you are not, it’s not my job, my right, or even my privilege to do so. Anyone who is outside the church falls under God’s judgment, not mine. Within the church, the only judgment I possess is that which pertains to someone’s teaching, or practice, of God’s Word. Nothing more, nothing less.

Anyone who tells you otherwise really doesn’t know his or her Bible.

Will I say I believe homosexuality is wrong, and do my best to keep it from being encouraged? You betcha. Will I judge someone for being homosexual? No way!

See, judgment involves passing sentence, and determining guilt, or innocence. There are only two sentences that matter, in the Biblical world, and both depend on God to mete out. This is outside the church, understand. Within the church, there is something a bit different, and it never involves the judgment of just one person – many are called upon in a situation where church discipline is involved.

The above passage is solely aimed at those “within” the church who seek to lead people within the church astray. There is no hidden meaning, no catch. It’s very plain, simple, and to the point. If your aim is, or the result of your actions is, leading those in the Body of Christ away from Christ – you are in deep, deep, trouble. It may not happen now, and it may not happen in this lifetime – but that is perhaps the strongest wording in the entire Bible. It’s a scathing denunciation of those who use the church for man’s ends. It was directed, also, solely at the poster I quoted, as an answer to the common skeptic’s argument he advanced.

You people must feel really good about yourselves now.

Not really. I mourn the fact that our culture is at the point where this is even a debate. So no, not really.

I’m just trying to live out my life the best I can.

So are we all.

But hey, what do you care! I’m just a freak who goes against God and nature.

That’s for you to talk over with God. I only quote what He said. Perhaps you should speak with the writer of the message, not the messenger – you know? I can only speak to what I’ve been told, what I believe, and what I have been taught.

My (ex) mother-in-law is a lesbian. We’ve had the same talk as has gone on here, really, and I’ve told her exactly what the Bible says about the practice of homosexuality. I don’t treat her any different than I would someone that had lied to me. It may annoy me, but hey, I sin too. I’ve lied myself. I’ve looked at women in ways I should not have, myself.

“For all have fallen short of the glory of God”

“There is none righteous – no, not one”

Everyone does wrong. There are no exceptions – but there IS a substitution, and there IS a refund. Jesus substituted Himself for us – Jesus paid the penalty, thus we get a refund on our sins – which would otherwise be Payable On Death.

Homosexuality is NOT the “unpardonable sin”. Nor is murder, nor is lying, nor are any other instances of wrongdoing. The only unpardonable sin is the refusal to accept His pardon. The riskiest thing for a man to do is NOT to go over Niagara falls in a barrel, it is NOT skydiving – it is putting off for tomorrow your acceptance of the only way out of the predicament we find ourselves in – wrongdoers who will one day be judged by a God who expects perfection.

“Today is the day of Salvation”. Not tomorrow.

I don’t judge – I point. Upwards.

Upon reading this response, I seem to come across a bit pedantic. I start out decently, I think, but fall into a sort of lecture mode. I wish I could change that, now – and I think I made up for it later. I consider it to be one of my least worthy attempts at explaining the dichotomy between judgment and pointing out transgression. I tried, though. I include it as part of my “historical” (in a sense) progression toward what I enjoy so much today.

This topic, “Culled From” is an attempt to cull some of the mini-debates I’ve engaged in, from forums or blogs where they’ve been buried. I liked quite a few of these debates, and I’d like to share them with a different audience. The following quote can be found here:

Well if their “Good Christians “, then they follow the New Testament not the old testament. When Christ came he set aside the old ways. You will have to read the New Testament to see if being Gay is still a sin. I’m to lazy to look it up for you.

My response which followed can be found here:

As for the injunction against homosexuality being an old-testament-only thing.. I beg to differ.

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

– 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching.

– 1 Timothy 1:8-10

A well-known Christian songwriter, who’s written over 2700 songs, has a great story about how he was trapped in the homosexual world as a young man. Since that time he’s made it a mission to reach out to homosexuals in all walks of life, from his Christian perpective.

He’s married, with 9 children now.

Like a poster above said – ALL have fallen short of the glory of God. There is NO sin worse than any other. I’m just as mad, honestly, about the legality of abortion as I am about the potential for “recognizing” so-called gay “marriage”. Or perjury, or etc. I get mad at myself, daily, when I find myself agreeing with Paul.

For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

– Romans 7:19-21

A bit later, we are given the question resulting from the above… a very pertinent question, really.

Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

The opener for the next chapter answers it, and answers it well.

Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Romans, as a book, is chiefly concerned with outlining the foundation for Christianity. Chapter 7 deals with the law, and it’s seeming contradictions in dealing with sin by condemning it. Chapter 8 deals with the fulfillment of the law in Jesus. It’s an interesting read, if you’re really serious about learning the foundation for the statements we’re batting back and forth. The only way to debate the Bible is to study it – otherwise, you’re only going to rehearse arguments you’ve heard from elsewhere. Who knows, you might even learn something 😀

On the Christian side… if a Christian doesn’t argue biblical principles with the Bible… he’s coming to the debate unarmed. Logic only goes so far, because the way most people are taught logic is from the subjective morality position, these days. You will, necessarily, be arguing from the objective morality position, which means that even your logic won’t avail you. THAT is the reason most debates over religion end up in “God said it, I believe it, and that settles it” – because Christianity, as well as most other religions founded on a scripture of any sort, are based on those scriptures as guidelines for living – the objective in objective morality. So, unless you’re really seriously out to do nothing but make an attempt to discredit an objective morality system by means of subjective morality (which, I have to tell you, is rather pointless), the argument is never going to go anywhere.

Ever. Proponents of objective morality cannot change their objective positions. Subjective proponents are a different story altogether. That’s why so many proponents of such philosophies continually call themselves “open-minded” – the very foundation of their philosophies are based on the principle – that their principles – depend on the situation.

So, really.. as much as I LOVE any sort of debate wherein it is possible to give some portion of the message of my Lord… treating it as a debate is always, always doomed to failure – if you want to win, not just exchange ideas.

As a favorite parable of mine about sowing seeds says… “Some wwas eaten by the birds, some fell on the rocky soil, some fell on thorny soil, and some fell on good soil”…

All we can do is sow.